Police Advisory & Oversight Board - March 29, 2023 Minutes

MINUTES
Meeting: Police Advisory & Oversight Board Working Session
Date: 3.29.2023
Time: 5:30 p.m.
Location: Sky Commons
The Police Advisory & Oversight Board members present or absent were as follows:

Present: Todd Spellerberg, David Hogenson, Joanna Johnson, Lucrachia King (late arrival), Tonya Greywind, Conrad Thomas, Scott Paul

Absent: None.

- Sergeant Jacobsen recapped the purpose of the meeting.
- Member Thomas commented that the Fargo community is very anxious. They like what the Board is trying to do, but it hasn’t been articulated what changes will be made or if changes are needed. To be viable, the Board has to show the community that they’re listening.  
- Chair Johnson said that the Board is new and also learning. She understands the community urge for quick action, but the Board is still learning. It’s worth the discussion and bringing it to the community.
- Sergeant Jacobsen stated that once a hierarchy of priorities is established amongst the Board, that can be presented to the community. If we can start putting out what we know we want covered, a dialogue of in what order can be had and how capable the Department is on educating the Board and the public on that.
- Chair Johnson brought up the annual report. There were a lot of questions at the open house about racism and bias training. She would like to keep annual reports in the meeting to bring it to the public.  
- Chief Zibolski would like to set up a community meeting about walking through traffic stops: what the expectations of the police, the citizens, what policy is. Provide a training component for the community, the Board, and for the Police Department to get feedback from the public, perhaps information on specific incidents that citizens have had concerns about.
- Chair Johnson asked if there are statistics as to who’s getting pulled over, such as age, race, etc.
- Chief Zibolski answered that when looking at demographics, you might want to look at the next step down (i.e., vehicle searches). Not all stops end in citations, and only certain information is required on citations.  
- Member Paul commented that the more change of scenery you can get, the more involvement you can get. He thinks the Board can probably do both at the same time. If it’s a 90 minute deal, do a 15 minute set for public comment. If spending 60 minutes walking through a stop, then at the end taking public comments and questions. Maybe do once a quarter an off‐site Board meeting to get more participation.  
- Chief Zibolski wants to try to get into all areas of the community
- Member Thomas commented that anything that can show that there’s concern and that the police are willing to meet and discuss and to address some difficult topics is commendable. When thinking about topics of today, there has to be more than just talking, there has to be some substance that causes some movement and change.  
- Member Greywind brought up some of the things she picked up on were first, education for citizens. Physical presentations and videos are good, online would also be good. Easier access to the ride‐along application. Community training. Citizen rights and responsibilities. First responder protocols. Death of a suspect and notification. Protocols for ticketing (discretion, behavior). Suspicious behavior protocol for engaging with community members. Data share (potential for developing dashboards, both internal and external, updated monthly or quarterly‐ internal: investigations, training. External: hotspots, arrests, traffic citations, homelessness, public safety data). Having protocols for engaging and asking or answering questions in listening sessions. Polling for topics during listening sessions (send out polls).    Member Paul asked if the department employs data analysts.
- Chief Zibolski answered that there are three criminal intelligence analysts that started in January of 2022. Some of the crime stats are on the website. Traffic statistics have month, violations, and totals. The crime mapping piece is coming along. The Police Department doesn’t have the software right now; the old software wasn’t very viable.  
- Member Hogenson said in terms of trust and de‐escalation, that’s what he got from the town hall meeting. Another takeaway is that some people are fearful to call for police help (trust issues). Does it make sense to pivot and talk more about how the Board can support Law Enforcement in encouraging the city/county/state to do better in terms of serving those will mental health and addiction?
- Chief Zibolski said that the Police Department has same concerns. The City Commission wanted to use calls for service as a sole analysis tool. That doesn’t work because a call make come in as one type and ends up as someone in a mental health crisis. Trying to get state/local elected to address.  
- Sergeant Jacobsen commented that the Police Department tries to use as many alternative resources as available.  
- Chief Zibolski added that the Police Department uses the tools that they have, but they’re limited.  
- Member Hogenson asked what that looks like? What can be done to drive that forward that the FPD and Oversight Board are aligned in that the city and state is not doing enough?
- Chief Zibolski commented that they can’t create the budget or authority to do it. The discussions help bring things to light that people may not have been aware of. He thinks it needs to come from state/local elected people, medical people (i.e., psychiatrists) that work in that area, and it needs to be local. Sending someone to Jamestown takes them out of their community, and that doesn’t help the individual.
- Member Spellerberg asked if there is a city the Chief would like to see us role model from (is there a city doing better than anyone else?)
- Chief Zibolski responded: not that he’s aware of. The County of Milwaukee used to have its own facility, but the state determined it too costly and decided to only have one facility for the whole state.  
- Sergeant Jacobsen said that contributing to the bigger picture, there are complexities with insurance controlling access/time to treatment.
- Member Paul brought up there were two appropriations bills, one in House and one in Senate, and both failed.
- Chair Johnson commented that Minnesota has community health things based throughout the state that are meant to help with that.
- Chief Zibolski said there’s a stigma from an elected perspective in general to have to create a facility for people for mental health.
- Chair Johnson knows someone who works with Adult Protective Services that they don’t feel that they get enough referrals. From her understanding, Police Department refers more to Southeast Human Services, who then doesn’t reach out and may be overwhelmed. Are there other entities that can be involved?
- Member Hogenson asked if they could look at why did those appropriation bills failed, see why they failed (who was behind them, what was the data, etc)
- Chief Zibolski commented the data needs context so it isn’t misunderstood. It’s a good discussion piece.  
- Member Thomas wanted to pivot and go back to vision with the community. As he looks at the Board, sees a diversity of people. He commented about the Police Department recruiting to get people of color in the organization (how’s the effort, what are the challenges/barriers, what can be done to get a more diverse police community).
- Chief Zibolski said getting out there and getting the Board out there.  
- Sergeant Jacobsen commented that the Police Department is trying to remove barriers (don’t charge to go to the FPD academy, academy officers are now being paid to be in the academy) to level the playing field for applicants.
- Member Thomas asked if the Police Department talked with POC officers to get their opinions. What have they talked about in terms of why there aren’t more? Or is the department satisfied?
- Chief Zibolski said not satisfied, because they definitely need to diversity more, but progress is being made. The best recruiters are the existing cops because they bring it back to their communities. Will be joining the 30 by 30 initiative to encourage female recruitment. FPD female officer representation is higher than national average.  
- Sergeant Jacobsen commented that the Police Department is starting to see the fruits of extensive labor of the engagement officers and LGBTQ officers.
- Chief Zibolski pointed out there are a lot of ethnicities that don’t fall into traditional categories, and those are other nuances when looking at reporting.
- Ahmed Shiil commented there was a push in the early 2000s/mid 2000s to change the census for North African and Middle Eastern to be considered their own races (currently considered White). He asked about the criteria to get into the academy or be a police officer.
- Chief Zibolski said 60 college credits, age 21, can’t have a felony conviction or misdemeanor domestic violence conviction (that’s a federal disqualifier for having a firearm), have to be a citizen, POST certified.  
- Sergeant Jacobsen added that the POST certification test happens at the end of the academy. Officially licensed upon being hired by an agency. Licensing is maintained with continuing education.
- Member Thomas asked if the 60 credits is state level.  Chief Zibolski thought it’s an ND POST requirement.
- Sergeant Jacobsen said that education requirement varies by state. (After researching, she clarified, 2 year degree is FPD expectation, ND requires only HS diploma/GED. 21 age requirement is also FPD specific.)
- Member Hogenson asked if there are any tools from around the country that the FPD wishes it had that could help.
- Chief Zibolski commented more personnel and the ability to train. Someone from the Training and Development Unit might have more ideas.
- Sergeant Jacobsen added POST licensing requirements require 60 continuing education credits every 3 years, and the city of Fargo historically gets more than that. Certain amounts of that 60 must be in certain areas (firearms, Taser, emergency vehicle operation).  Chair Johnson asked when this presentation will happen.
- Sergeant Jacobsen reminded that the Board can’t vote on anything today, but it can be discussed at the next meeting.
- Chief Zibolski brought up topics: traffic, mental health, use of force?
- Member Paul commented that there’s a difference between a community engagement and a 20 minute presentation to the Board.
- Sergeant Jacobsen asked if there was any guidance on what to be presented in normal Board meeting.
- Member Paul suggested an overview of academy process, syllabus, what the process entails.
- Chief Zibolski and Sergeant Jacobsen suggested overview of hiring and parameters, recruitment efforts.
- Also suggested: o Annual report/data o Vehicle pursuit policy
- Use of social media‐ (explain how that’s used by the PD and how important it is for policing) o Deescalation (blends into both mental health and UOF)
- Member Hogenson asked when the work plan will be back.
- Chief Zibolski said it’s still being worked on. It can be agendized and prioritized when it’s ready.

Time of adjournment was 7:04 p.m.